User talk:Atheneoflymington

From CruisersWiki

Jump to: navigation, search

Welcome to CruiserlogWiki! We hope you will contribute much and well. You will probably want to read the help pages. Again, welcome and have fun! Lighthouse 22:58, 18 March 2010 (UTC)


New tax on Greece waters

As reported, Jan 1st was supposed to be implemented the new anual tax. But some reports tell that it could be still under consideration. Any confirmation of this in any way...??? CORFUBOAT BanderaEspañaIcono.jpg

Italy Contributions

Great work on the Italy section Gordon.

Please check coords for Marina del Fezzano

Lighthouse 20:17, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Porto Turistico di Roma (Ostia)‎‎

New page "Porto Turistico di Roma (Ostia)"‎‎ - where does this link back to (in navbar)? I can find "Porto Turistico di Roma" on the "Fiumara Grande" - without "(Ostia)". Or, must the links on the "Fiumara Grande" page be changed to include "(Ostia)"? Lighthouse 07:41, 9 December 2010 (UTC)‎‎

Policastro, Italy

Please check the coords.


Please check coords.

New pages

Hi Gordon. Please check the "Navbar" links at the bottom of NEW pages. Copy the navbar code from the "mother" page and add the new page link at the end of the navbar. Otherwise, the NEW page just sort of floats in space, LOL. Lighthouse 09:21, 5 May 2011 (BST)

Marmara Islands

Hi Gordon. I can see why you changed several port titles on this page. Your changes did add clarity but they played havoc in the links within the page and from other pages. Please if you make title pages in the future investigate all the pages that link to that title and change them as well. I know that this is a lot of work.

Happy New Year Istioploos 11:40, 30 December 2011 (EST)

External Links

Gordon a vandal made a massive edit changing "External Links" as it has always been and is in out templates to "External links" which may cause some broken links. I am reverting the damage. Please do keep an I also. Istioploos

Dugi Otok

Happy New Year Gordon. Great work in Croatia but here you cannot have headers that include a number. Headers are linkable items. No one will link to something "3. U. Krusevica" but may link om "U. Krusevica".

On non-linkable items (non headers) it does not matter. The reason, however, for using headers for anchorages etc. is because they are linkable. This allows for future expansion.


Gordon, you are doing a fantastic job on Croatia. If only we had few more wiki contributors like you…

I have been for years trying to convince other cruisers that sharing their experiences is a way of helping each other of the cruising community. I kept notes, first in an old fashioned notebook, and then on the laptop of all the harbors and anchorages that I had visited. Later I put these on DVDs and gave them away with the hope that other people would add their own observations. Very few did so. Then along came Bob (Lighthouse) with his wiki. He convinced to add my notes there.

It was a monumental task that took over a year. Along the way I made many mistakes but Bob gently guided me. By that time his wife, who wrote about their cruising, was very sick and they had stopped cruising. Bob kept on researching places, created new pages, and added some material to the wiki. Then his wife passed away and slowly he phased out. I kept hopping that others will step in and fill his big shoes. I also hoped that more active cruisers, like you, will become more active. Now we do have some, many thanks to you and your encouragement.

It is good to keep up with new wiki additions and to edit each other's contributions as to form (looks and feel) and usability. Maybe my long software development background makes me over sensitive to these issues. But I mostly consider these as minor improvements. Adding new content, as you do, is the most important.

Please keep going.


January 3 edits in Croatia


In many of your edits on January 3, 2013 there is a type. The "N" on the coord. is missing i.e. in Dubrovnik there is 42°38.5′18, 07.8°E′ instead of 42°38.5′N, 18°07.8′E.

I have corrected many of these but it would be good if you take another look in case I have overlooked some.




I think that Preveza is a model Port page. I made some minor changes to 1. improve the layout (I was getting some print over the first picture) and 2. changed the depth of some headers to conform with the latest template. Please take a look. If we like it then we can use this page a s a model/template.

I really like the new section "Useful Contacts". Bravo!




This is indeed a problem. In software as in engineering in general everything is a trade-of and a compromise. In the wiki we have 2 tables: TOC and the Info table. I take it you are referring tot he TOC.

The TOC is very useful for 2 reasons:

  1. For the user who wants to look up a specific say port or anchorage. Instead of of scanning the whole page he/she just clicks on the TOC.
  2. The other is either a wiki editor or a user who wants to refer to particular entry in another wiki page or in another website. That is he/she wants a link.

The Wikimedia engine , in an effort to address the real-estate problem allows us to turn off/on the the display of the TOC. This done at the individual user's preferences. Lighthouse experimented by having the TOC off by default but I finally talked in restoring the default to on. At that time we came up with the {{TOCleft}} compromise that allows us to at least have some control where the TOC is displayed in a page. My personal opinion is that the benefits outweigh the penalty.

The other table, the Info table does get bigger and occupies more real estate when we include pictures and/or maps. From an esthetic point I think ti does look better if we do include at least one these in the Info table rather then having then as an "image" further down. As you have seen if we use 350px within the table and 345px for the rest of the images they line up to the right very nicely.

The other problem I have is with the on-line Google maps. I, as I have said to you before object to them for 2 reasons:

  1. Many users, maybe now less then before, do not have Internet access while cruising and store static static versions of wiki pages on their computer to be viewed off-line. But, these do not show the on-line Google maps at exactly when a map of a place is the most useful to the cruiser.
  2. In my computer at least (Mac) that allows window scrolling form the mouse these have an interface problem. If while scrolling through a wiki page the mouse cursor happens to be on the map instead of scrolling the page the map gets scrolled and it is no longer showing the intended location on the map but it shows something far-far away. To get back one has to reload the page. Please try and see if this or anything like it happens with your computer.

Have a nice weekend Vasilis

Tables etc.

Me again! Regarding tables, I was really referring to the table of islands and ports on the Croatia page, not the TOC, which I agree is very useful. I just wondered if there was a better way of displaying all the islands and ports links on the country page which looked neater and took up less space.

Sorry I misunderstood. I looked in Croatia and I see what you mean. I do not see that the use anything other then table will keep the long list of ports and islands more compact. The only thing I can think of is to combine the regions in one large (or at any rate fewer) tables with a column for each region. Take a look at Turkey. There the listings within each column are alphabetical. Now is we want to go this way for Croatia we will have to combine the mainland ports and the islands. But we may introduce a new icon-symbol to designate the islands. What do you think?

I understand your feelings on the Google Maps - I personally don't have a problem with them (using the Google Chrome browser) and the reason I insert them is that I find it very useful if you want to pan or zoom into a harbour or anchorage. They'd be even more useful if you could also link to Google Earth within the maps, but I guess the Panoramio link performs that function at the moment. Anyway, I'm open to suggestions if you have a better notion.

I download Chrome and I still have the same problem. I have two different mice. The older one had a scrolling wheel, and the other is like a touch-pad. On my MacBook there is a built-in touch pad. All these devices exhibit the same very annoying behaviour with when using the touch pad while the cursor is inadvertently on a Google Map wiki insert. Any, event the most imperceptible finger movement causes the map to zoom either in or out to nowhere. Getting it back need a reload of the page. I have now tried this with Chrome, Safari, Firefox, and Opera. All do the same thing. Its behaviour on an iPhone and an iPad is also bad. There you zoom and scroll a page by finger gestures. All is well until your finger strays on the inset. Again you can very easily loose the map and only a re-load restores it. Given the large number of people with Apple devices this behaviour is unacceptable. The least we can do is to give a warning to our users.

Regards Vasilis

Recurring problems


Maybe because of the inevitable cut & paste the following problems crop up in your recently edited pages:

  1. Gallery captions - this is used ONLY if you actually provide a caption. If you do not please delete it
  2. Gallery perrow - 4 pictures in a row are too wide for most screens. Please never use more then 3. Use 2 for four pictures because if you use 3 it does not look good
  3. Last Visited & Details Checked - this section should be a level4 (====) subsection of Personal Notes
  4. Links within a page - use the # construct i.e. to refer to Marinas & Yacht Clubs use [[#Marinas & Yacht Clubs]]
  5. See below - this is overused, please do use a link within the page. Also do not use it when linking to another page
  6. GPS in Marinas - please remove i.e. change GPS: 41°55.53′N, 15°53.2′E to just 41°55.53′N, 15°53.2′E
  7. Email add in Marinas - please remove the "add" i.e. change in "Email add" to just "Email". Also add "Email" within the link i.e. change [] to [ Email]
  8. Web reference in Marinas - add "Website" to the link i.e. change [] to [ Website]

Regards Vasilis

Harbor Symbol

The symbol in Italy looks good, and I like that it is a different color.

In the past, we left ports/harbors without a symbol and added the marina symbol when there was an organized marina, sometimes within the old harbor. I see not harm or problem if we begin using the new symbol.

At this time I am going over "Recent Changes" including your myriad entries. After that I will go back to the Aegean and add some new materia plus modernize its entries along the lines we came up with in Croatia.

Have good day Vasilis

Editing notes

  1. The use of the new harbor symbol you propose is fine. I will start using it also
  2. My editing convention on "Contributors" is: I always include the member who started the page. After that I include only members who have contributed actual new content (not cosmetics, rearranging etc.)
  3. On lists I do not add a period after each list item. I only use periods at the end of sentences
  4. After the period at the end of the sentence, following web standard practice, I use a single space and NOT 2 spaces (a carryover from the typewriter days)

Please bring to my attention any desirable or undesirable practices so that we can be consistent.



Please the the discussion page at Talk:Venice. --Istioploos 19:55, 25 January 2013 (GMT)

Porto Lago


I reverted one of your changes for the following reason:

"Greece_PortoLago1.jpg" is only 300 × 177 px, under the desired 345. So instead of specifying "345px|thumb" I specified "frame" which displays the image at it maximum and does not give the false indication to the user that there is a larger view.

--Istioploos 13:04, 15 February 2013 (GMT)

Editing Question

Gordon, I want your opinion in the following nit picking issue:

If I combine the end of the info box with the following text as in

|} {{TOCleft}}[ Ierapetra] (Ιεράπετρα) is a town with a small harbor in southeast Crete.

The resulting page looks rather good but the editing is harder to read. For example see Ierapetra.

What we had been doing was

|} {{TOCleft}}
[[Image:RethymnoHarbour.jpg|thumb|345px|right| '''Old Venetian harbour, Rethymno''' <br>''Click for larger view'' ]]

Where the text does not line up with either the TOC nor the info box. However, in general the edit page is easier to read. See Rethimno.

What do you think? Vasilis


Sorry Gordon but in the Country Template we have:

====Cruising the region====

and not

==Cruising the region==

as you have changed.

By the way, good work on Portugal and elsewhere. I also do appreciate you looking over my shoulder and correcting my mistakes.




Recently you have been changing in several pages ====Transportation==== to ==Transportation==.

I can see your logic but it can be also be argued that it belongs to "Things to do Ashore". Now, most of our templates have, rightly or not, ====Transportation====.

It seems that we have 2 options:

  1. Change the templates (Port, Island, etc) to ==Transportation== and then do the same to several hundred other pages, or
  2. Revert your ==Transportation== in the recent pages you have edited back to ==Transportation==.

I leave the decision up to you. My only concern is that we should be consistent.

Please let me know what you want to do ASAP so that we minimize the amount of needed editing.

Regards Vasilis


The splitting of Kefalonia is fine. I just made some minor changes in the new page.



Hi Gordon, I am back in Samos.

A small editorial comment: Under the "Last Visited & Details Checked (and updated here)" it is the practice to keep the date of our last visit and not to list all our visits. So, I edited out your previous visit.

I hope you both are having fun in the Ionian. Vasilis

Cleopatra Marina

Gordon I am confused. Does this marina have or not wifi? If it does it must also have Internet as they do go together. You can have Internet, via cable, without wifi but not the other way around.--Istioploos 13:42, 25 June 2013 (BST)


It is historical. Internet was then available only via a cable connection. Wifi was almost unknown. Then it was introduced. We can either:

  1. continue using it as redundant to Wifi,
  2. remove it,
  3. or relabel it (Cable Internet?)

What do you think?



Gordon, Read your comment about moving the navigation area. Please stop and think about whether the bottom of the page is the right place for that. I'm happy to move them back but I sincerely believe that the bottom is a disincentive to using the site. Until you've gone right to the bottom you have no easy way to return, other than use your browsers back button. I'm afraid that I'm rather one of those that wont read the detail unless I really have to, my fingers find the 'home' key without looking, I'd have to look for the 'end' key. I hadnt intended changing any more than Sardinia but wanted to change a whole area to get the right effect.

Changing wholesale 'should' only be a matter of finding the right person to write a script to automate the task?

Regards ... Robbie

Navigation around the site

Thanks Gordon, As an early perspective I'd see moving around the site as its biggest problem. Most websites have their navigation either at the top or down the left. Although this is built as a Wiki its much more than that. A Wiki is something you might dip into to check a fact, so each access has its own search argument; you might then follow a few links to items that look interesting. The CruisersWiki is much more of an interactive site so really needs a way to move around the content that is more like a web page.

As an aside, is there an open forum where CruisersWiki things can be discussed? This method is rather cumbersome!

I've read some of the other debates you and Istipoolis(sp?) have had so will modify the way I'm donig a couple of other things - appreciate the point that ease of editing sort of overrides layout when viewing.

RobbieW 11:17, 5 August 2013 (BST)

Greece arrival procedures & customs/immigration

Unfortunately Gordon I have no idea. The last time I officially left and then entered Greece was over 10 years ago. Besides Thetis is a Greek flagged boat. What we need is info from a EU and a non-EU boat recently arrived. I will keep my ears open asking boats I meet.

Regards Vasilis


I reverted a few of your changes in the headers so that the page is compatible with the Port Template. --Istioploos 21:38, 13 November 2013 (GMT)

New page: Nautical Software

Hi Gordon, thank you for setting up my user page.
I would like to contribute content for a new page called 'Nautical Software' or similar, since I think, this wiki would be a great place to share a 'compendium' on software for sailing including Iphone and Android apps. I'm thinking about something like this German wiki page:
I came across that page as somebody has been listing my own app there and was very thankful to get a comprehensive list of dedicated sailing software - something I've periodically searched for ever since owning a smartphone. Due do my extensive research I would be able to contribute quite a starting base of content for such a page. But since I'm new to the working structures of a wiki in general and this one in particular I could use a little bit of advice - as if such a page would make sense in general, if there might be other users with such interest (how to find them) and how to actually do it (set up a new page).
Many thanks for your advice in advance, Arnold

Nautical Software Page

Great Gordon, thanks. I think, I would be able to set up the page as it is? Is it possible to provide a sortable table as in the example link that I mentioned? It's a very good approach, I think. Otherwise we would have to split headings into types of applications or operating systems, but this could become partly redundant, as e.g. there are apps for multiple purposes and also apps that are available for multiple platforms etc.

Nautical Software

OK, I made a start - it'll take some time to build this up... actually managed to make the table sortable, which is great. If you like, feel free to correct my English. thanks Arnold


Hi Gordon, could you please keep Castelsardo without 1st <h2> heading for a while? By the way, do you think it's required there? For me these 2 successive headings look like a bit of a clutter. Do you think it would be better if top <h1> heading is removed? Cheers --Vadim 12:05, 1 April 2015 (BST)

I agree with Vadim if the page title and the <h2> (==) are the same as in Castelsardo. But there are many pages where they are different, these we should leave alone. --Istioploos 13:20, 1 April 2015 (BST)

Port Bonifacio

I'm not 100% sure that my memories are right, but I'm recalling that in September 2012 we moored to a concrete jetty on the S side at the head of the harbour rather than to a wooden pontoon. I mean it was a relatively high non-floating installation. There were 3 or 4 such a jetties there. Cheers --Vadim 13:16, 19 April 2015 (BST)

Pescara etc.

Gordon, please take a look on my recent edits of Finikas and Finikas Marina. These were mainly to replace the link to the MapTech chartlet that has stopped working with a Navionics that does work well.

In the case of ports, island etc. I also made various replacements (Infobox, Guide, Contributos, and Navbar) using Vadims newer and much less error prone embeddable templates. Being somewhat lazyI made less drastic changes in marinas where the Inbox is much more elaborate.

Vasilis --Istioploos 19:14, 7 May 2015 (BST)



I recently started using {{Image right|file |comment }} (written by Vadim) instead of [[Image: file|size| comment]] because it is simpler and automatically lines up the image with the information box at the top of the page. As an extra the use of the "{{" , which is a template, allows us to be able in the future to change image sizes across the wiki and not have to edit individual pages. --Istioploos 20:19, 18 June 2015 (BST)


Gordon there is a problem with the interactive map in Brac. Not sure how to fix it. --Istioploos 19:49, 3 July 2015 (BST)

The & in C&N Marina

I too ried all the possible moves of the page but the damn & comes back. The only thing I could manage was to change the name to "C and " and then use "C&N" in the ==title== --Istioploos 14:42, 22 July 2015 (BST) Vasilis

Hold templates

Gordon, I see that you are removing from many pages the hold templates ({{hold horizontal}} and {{hold vertical}}) that I had introduced. The reason I have put them there is to prevent unsightly overflows at certain window sizes. Please test those pages with various wind sizes, wide and narrow. --Istioploos 18:07, 11 November 2015 (GMT)

Testing with many different computers/devices does make a difference. In a matter of aesthetics this least offensive wins. So, I defer to your extra testing.

For of Entry

Gordon. In an effort to remove redundant titles Vadim change the {{IsPartOf|}} template to include this info. So, for example the lines

{{IsPartOf|Mediterranean|Adriatic Sea|Montenegro}}
{{TOC block}}
==Bar (Port of entry)==

were charged to:

{{IsPartOf|Mediterranean|Adriatic Sea|Montenegro|portOfEntry=y}}
{{TOC block}}

Please keep this kind of change when you edit a page. --Istioploos 14:22, 22 February 2016 (GMT)


Gordon I saw your changes in {{Page useable}} and {{Page outline}}. First of all I want to make sure that you think very carefully before changing a template that is used by all the pages of the wiki. Then I think you should change the word "Comments" to a link. Finally in outline you should change the wording. What we want is people to add material to the page and only their personal notes and/or discussions to "Comments". As it reads now we asking all the material to go into "Comments". --Istioploos 18:12, 22 February 2016 (GMT)

Welcome message

Gordon, there are 3 Welcome messages in the wiki and hence our confusion. These are:

  1. Confirm account welcome - This the system message that is automatically placed in a new user's talk page (Comments). I suspect this is the one you would like to change.
  2. Welcome New User - This is a template that I made (I think you use it also), to go as a greeting to a new user that I have just approved.
  3. Welcome - This is another template. I believe we had edited it at some time but now I am not sure where it appears.

--Istioploos 20:41, 10 March 2016 (GMT)

Suggestion for restructuring Venice and its lagoon

Currently one enters the Venice page and it offers direct links to:

1. the Venice (core city) marinas

2. the Venice (lagoon) page (twice!) — I think whoever made the links to the "lagoon" page realized the structure is unclear, and this is why they linked to it immediately above the Venice core marinas as well as immediately below, but the links are in the text, which makes them indistinct.

So, you click onwards to the Lagoon page, and it links you to lacunar sections which, frankly, how many people actually sail separately?:

2.a Venice - Chioggia

2.b Venice - Mestre

2.c Venice - Cavallino-Treporti

2.d Venice - Portegrandi

2.e Venice - Piave Vecchia

Now, under each of the 2.x headings below, there are citations for names of marinas for which pages exist... but these pages are unlinked because whoever created the structure wants one to click on the section (2.a, 2.b, etc) and from that page to click on the marina.

To summarize, to read Marina del Faro, one must click in proper sequence:

I. Venice

II. Venice Lagoon (if you can find it)

III. Venice Piave Vecchia

IV. and at this point hunt for Marina del Faro which is not in table form (like the Venice core marinas are), but in text form.

Look, call me dense, but I've been using the Venice wiki for weeks now, and only fully figured this out tonight. Until now, I saw the "Lagoon" page with its unlinked marinas and I simply thought the Wiki had no data on them (!) So, here is my

SUGGESTION: Have a very short Venice page to include clear (in equivalent heading or table sections) links to subpages 1. Venice (City Center) and 2. Venice (Lagoon/Suburban).

From each of these two pages link directly to each marina. Each marina could still be under an "area" heading such as Chioggia / Mestre / etc.

Delete the Chioggia / Mestre / Cavallino-Treporti / Portegrandi / Piave Vecchia area pages.

Cheerio, --Peregrinus 04:55, 27 November 2016 (GMT)


Hi Gordon, I've just stumbled across File:MarinaNettuno.jpg. It contains 2 different images: the most recent one is for Marina di Nettuno at the Tyrrhenian Coast and the older one is for Marina del Nettuno in Messina. So Messina page shows now a wrong image --Vadim 13:40, 25 January 2017 (GMT)

Personal tools
Friends of Cruisers Wiki